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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 5, 2013 15:35:59 GMT -5
Post Responses Here
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Post by scanley73 on Oct 5, 2013 20:28:49 GMT -5
A. I think that Thomas Putnam embodies some of the problems that we face today in America. Some people will do whatever it takes to get money. In their case it’s land. People today don’t care who they have to crush in order to get what they want. Thomas Putnam will gladly see an old man hang if it means that he will be able to take his land. Putnam truly is a conniving snake who will slither in the grass and attack a helpless mouse. I felt relief when Giles spoke out against him and called him out to be the villain that he truly is.
B. The significance of the meeting in this reading is incredibly important. The winds have shifted and now there are people who are finally standing up to the court. They are finally trying to oppose those lying, wretched girls. All of them are trying to save their own skin and in order to do that they are lying through their teeth and in turn condemning others to die. Now there is opposition and perhaps true justice can finally be found and the innocents can be released from prison and have their good names cleared
C. Why is it that Parris is so opposed to these people being innocent? Every time Proctor, Giles, or Francis tries to say something he shouts at them trying to denounce their claims. He hasn’t lied and doesn’t need this court to save his skin why can’t he be happy that the Devil isn’t in Salem?
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Post by 1adams12 on Oct 5, 2013 20:52:11 GMT -5
Michael Adams
Crucible Pages 1249-1256
I. I agree with Scanley on his B because without that meeting, which is a vital part of the play, the readers would not understand what is going on here. The readers would also not understand why people all of a sudden got dismissed or people hating others if the meeting was not the play.
A. People today, don’t necessarily understand why people hate them, or are trying to beat against them to reach the highest. For example: Ebay is all about getting the cheaper price, and buying shoes, you want to get the cheapest price, but a good quality. I personally know for a fact, when I try and buy something, I try to find the best price with the same quality and I then buy that if it satisfies me. I also know people can have feuds over the price of something, which to me is really ridiculous. Why fight over something when you can probably find a better price somewhere else.
D. My favorite quote of this part of the play is “And how do you imagine to help her with such contemptuous riot? Now be gone. Your old age alone keeps you out of jail for this” (1249). I personally find this funny because how can an old man not be put in jail? Just because of his age? If he did that in this time period, the 21st Century, he would be thrown into jail and no one would care about this. It also is true that you should not be able to help others while you are fighting with the judge. If you fight with the judge, you would not help get anyone you know out of court, and you would definitely not help prevent the fact that the person that you are trying to save might die.
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Post by Sean de los Santos on Oct 6, 2013 10:03:32 GMT -5
Sean de los Santos
English 11
Mr. Thomas
4 October 2013
Crucible Act 3 Discussion
A. The beginning of Act 3 reminds me of the court scene from the movie, To kill a Mockingbird. The court scene from the movie was the part where the daughter of Bob Ewell, Mayella Ewell, accused Tom Robinson of hitting her. Mayella tells the court that she was raped and assaulted by the black man, Tom Robinson. Atticus on the other hand proves that it wasn’t Tom that assaulted her. Atticus gives the jury the evidence and in all cases, his theory was correct. After 30 minutes, the judge still finds him guilty of the assault. This is similar to the court scene in which the jury still doesn’t believe Proctor and Giles. They still want Goody Corey and Elizabeth Proctor to get executed even when valid proof was given.
C. Some of the confusing parts of this part of Act 3 was when the judges of the town still don’t believe the men that give evidence. John Proctor gives very valid explanations. All of those were true and the fact that they didn’t believe her really confused me in a way. It didn’t make sense not to believe that the girls are just a bunch of phonies.
E. The Character I liked in the play was John Proctor. John proctor was very like-able in this scene because he already knew that the girls were all faking the accusations. John proctor was already suspicious and he was able to give his viewpoint on the case itself.
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Post by emmanuelluna on Oct 6, 2013 12:51:17 GMT -5
Emmanuel Luna
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/4/13
B. A quote that I thought was significant because it shows that other people are also starting to realize what the witch trials are about is when Giles says, “Thomas Putnam is reaching out for land!” (1249) Giles has also realized that since everyone is so easily manipulated, they can accuse someone of witchcraft to get their way.
E. John Proctor is the only character that I find likeable so far. John Proctor might not be perfect and he might lie a lot to get out of trouble, but he really cares about his wife and is really worried about what is going on in Salem. He is also one of the few people who are able to clearly see that the girls are using witchcraft as a means to get what they want. This is why I find John Proctor to be the most likeable character in The Crucible.
C. I really don’t understand why the judges are so stubborn and don’t trust John Proctor, who has solid evidence to prove that his wife is not a witch and that the girls are just faking being affected by witchcraft. It seems to me like the judges don’t care about what happens to the innocent people accused of witchcraft, just as long as their reputation is safe. This sort of reminds me of Parris and how all he cares about is his reputation and this is why Proctor dislikes him and doesn’t trust him.
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Post by bourdonm15 on Oct 6, 2013 13:12:19 GMT -5
Matthew Bourdon
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/6/13
B. The quote that Hathorne tells Giles really shows how out of hand this situation has gotten with all of these people. “Giles – They’ll be hangin’ my wife! Hathorne – How do you dare come roarin’ into this court! Are you gone daft, Corey?” (Page 1249) This is really sad how Hathorne shows no remorse what so ever. Giles is trying to explain that his wife should not be condemned and the people a part of the court have no remorse and do not even bother to listen to him. It shows how cold-blooded and corrupt Abigail’s little plan is becoming.
D. The quote that really is a game changer in the play is what Nurse Francis tells the court about all the girls. “Excellency, we have proof for your eyes; God forbid you shut them to it. The girls, sir, the girls are frauds.” (Page 1250) Now we notice that John Proctor is not the only one that notices that something is up with the girls. We now have the first person to bring up to the court that the girl’s are frauds and that they should not be listened to or believed.
I. I agree with most others such as Emmanuel and Sean and could say that the only character I like is John Proctor. He is one of a few people who was able to recognize and be suspicious of the girls. He is a character that actually has his thoughts “down to earth” unlike all these other characters who are actually believing the nonsense.
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Post by johnmarano on Oct 6, 2013 14:03:06 GMT -5
John Marano
Mr. Thomas
English 11
6 October 2013
D. In the constant arguments that are breaking out in the court, I like when the judge is really questioning Mary Warren. After the protest of a few husbands, the judge is now forced to question the children of their witchcraft. As Abigail is called to stand, she says, “She lies” (1256). I find this so amusing because Mary really wasn’t lying, but it really looks like she was because she is now proclaiming that she is with God. We all know that Abigail is a viscous character, but she is looking better and better in the court. There is no way to prove she is lying at this point. I find this ironic that Mary is revealing the truth of the hoax of witchcraft, and the judge isn’t believing her.
E. The story is really heating up and as the trials are in action, I would have to say that I am beginning to have a different feeling toward John Procter. I really didn’t like him early on in the play because he is very angry and secretive. As Abigail conspires the death of Elizabeth, John is really doing everything he can to prove her innocence. He made the whole town sign a paper revealing how kind of a person Elizabeth is. He is even making Mary Warren confess her previous lies of witchcraft so that the charges for his wife will be dropped. We all make mistakes, little or big, and John Proctor is taking it into his own hands to fix his mistakes. I now feel he is genuinely sorry and really wants to start his family again.
I. I really liked reading the post by Emmanuel Luna. In part C, he is questioning the judges. As the reading progressed, I began to question them too. I really think they lack common sense. They claim to be highest in power and in favor of God but are accusing for no reason. I like how he says that the judges really don’t care about innocence of anyone, they really don’t. They are just looking to put away more innocent people because of the “accusations” against them.
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Post by epoccia on Oct 6, 2013 15:50:02 GMT -5
Eddie Poccia
English 11
Mr. Thomas
6 October 2013
A. “Thomas Putnam is reaching out for land!” (1249). Goles says this in court in order to prove that his wife is not guilty of being a witch. It frustrated me that the court would not hear him out because he was absolutrly right. I just feel like the court should have let him say what he had to in order to defend his wife, I mean isn't that what courts are supposed to do.
I. I agree with the comments made by most of the people that posted so far in that John Proctor is one of the only likable characters in the play. He is doing his best to protect his wife from being proven guilty and getting executed. He was also the only one who actually sees that the girls are using their power to accuse people and get what they want.
E. I found that the judge, Danforth, really does not care very much about the people in the court. The fate of all of these women lies in his hands and he just doesn't seem to care. It seems like he wants to imprison all of them even though they are innocent. As I mentioned before, he didn't even give Giles the chance to explain the evidence that could have saved his wife from being executed. This made me really dislike Judge Danforth.
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Post by matthewsegarra on Oct 6, 2013 16:33:30 GMT -5
Matthew Segarra
Mr. Thomas
English 11
7 October 2013
D. I find it interesting when the judge begins to interrogate Mary Warren. Finally, the judge asks the kids about the “witchcraft”. When Abigail is called to speak she tells the judge, “She lies” (1256). Of course Mary is not lying but since Abigail is evil and wants the attention of everyone in the town, she will lie to get Mary hung. Abigail has no apparent reason to lie against Mary, but it is just her nature. Since there is no evidence, the judge has no choice but to believe Abigail. Also, since Mary is not confessing to witchcraft, it makes her guilty in the eyes of the court.
E. The play is picking up and really becoming interesting. It is starting to become a wild goose chase with no goose. John Proctor is starting to become my favorite character. At first I did not like him because of his short temper and his failure to keep his secrets. I like him now because he is taking action against Abigail to protect his wife. His wife was accused of being a witch so he tries to convince everyone in town that she is not a witch. He tries to get Mary to confess to being a witch so his wife could be free of suspicion.
I. I agree with Emmanuel’s post for part C. The judges in this play are extremely questionable. They have no common sense or morals. They use no logic to persecute anyone or follow the word of God. Emmanuel was right in saying they don’t care about anyone’s innocence. They just convict people and throw them away without even considering their innocence.
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Post by danokeefe15 on Oct 6, 2013 17:29:48 GMT -5
Danny O’Keefe
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/6/13
B. In the beginning of Act 3 when they are accusing the Putnam’s neighbor of which craft I noticed that this is a big and important part of the story. People are now starting to realize that all these accusations aren’t real and are seeing who the Putnam’s really are
C. A question that came to mind when reading the beginning of Act 3 was that I thought the Puritans took religion very seriously and were very strict. In the beginning of act 3 it mentioned that Proctor attends church only once a month. I’m kind of surprised that nothing has happened to Proctor yet that people haven’t become suspicious of him or that they haven’t punished him for not attending church because Salem is a Puritan town.
E. This reading is very important and interesting because people are now waking up and realizing how stupid all of this is. Also now that Elizabeth is pregnant I think that the play will become way more interesting. I think the accusations will become even worse and there will be more tension.
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Post by georgebaroudos on Oct 6, 2013 17:53:08 GMT -5
George Baroudos
Mr. Thomas
English 11
5 October 2013
I – The discussion held in class incorporated the theme of religion that undoubtedly plays a major role in Puritan literature. I was not aware that even the court held religious policies. “The law based upon the Bible” (1256) shows us how truly religion is embedded into society. This is not even including the various references to Cain and Able but I wasn’t sure how embedded religious faction was. This is my shocking response to the whole Puritan literature topic because I never realized how important it truly was.
A – Giles has risen to become my favorite character in the Crucible. Giles stands up for what are right and the truth. This resembles my own grandfather who only believes in the right way. I sincerely respect those who are able to care for others then themselves. I also respect the bigger man who believes in the right way. Giles standing up for Jacobs is honorable because Putnam is a true lowlife. Greedy people and liars are the worst kind of people. With these traits comes self-centeredness that is just as disgusting. But it shows how long there has been a divide between the true and good people and the bad people.
E – I hate Abigail, I honestly loathe Abigail. If Abigail was a real person and was a guy I would honestly punch him in the face. Abigail’s lying ways are disgusting. Even in the court she refuses to admit the truth. Abigail refuses to admit the truth. Honestly I think that she believes her own lies. When a person becomes so consumed in their lies it reflects negatively for them because they may start to believe it like in Old School. As the book goes on the angrier I become, this book is becoming a hassle to read but I do enjoy it.
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Post by rodriguezj15 on Oct 6, 2013 21:27:00 GMT -5
Joel Rodriguez
Mr. Thomas
English 11
October 7, 2013
A. I think that this play is a perfect example of why in today’s society that church and state are separate. The court in the Crucible is, “…a court of law. The law, based upon the Bible, and the Bible, writ by Almighty God,” in Danforth’s words (Miller 1256). But as we read we find out that it is highly flawed. They don’t need hard evidence to prove someone is innocent or not, they used the Bible. For example, Parris used the story of Cain and Abel to argue against Proctor. Even though today’s judicial system is highly flawed, I’m glad we’re not as corrupt as the Puritan.
D. I liked Proctor’s line, “There might also be a dragon with five legs in my house, but no one has ever seen it,” in response to Parris (Miller 1256). I like this line because it shows that Proctor understands how absurd their accusations are and that since no one has ever seen hard evidence to support those accusations, anyone can go claiming something as weird as having a pet dragon and people would still believe it.
I. I agree with Matt Segarra on how the play is picking up and how, “It is starting to become a wild goose chase with no goose.” This is a very interesting part especially seeing how 91 people just got arrested in an instance. Also the goose chase metaphor is very fitting seeing how everyone is looking for witches when they don’t even exist. Even Danforth says, “But witchcraft is ispo facto, on its face and by its nature, an invisible crime (Miller 1255).”
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Post by eointunney on Oct 6, 2013 21:30:20 GMT -5
Eoin Tunney
Mr. Thomas
English 11
6 October 2013
D. On page 1256, there was one quote by Danforth that really amazed me. When Mary Warren started confessing that she lied in court to get revenge on some women Danforth began to tell her that what she did was illegal. But then he says, “It does not escape me that this deposition may be devised to blind us; it may well be that Mary Warren has been conquered by Satan, who sends her here to distract our sacred purpose.” After reading this line I automatically thought this guy was out of his mind. He was getting the truth out of Mary Warren and then he just ruins it.
E. In these few pages I felt that Proctor changed into a totally different man. In these pages I feel that he turned into more of a loving husband than he had been. He becomes very worried about his wife at the end of act 2, which transitions into act 3. This can be seen when Proctor goes to court and brings a paper with 91 signatures saying that his wife and two others are good people who are definitely not witches. I honestly couldn’t believe this because 91 signatures is a lot considering that there aren’t many people in these towns back then. Also the people who would sign this paper would be limited because many people are scared of these so-called “witches”.
I. Referring to George Baroudos’ comments, it honestly is amazing how much of a role religion has in the Puritan society. Everywhere you go religion in incorporated. You would think that the people would have a court and law system that isn’t based on their religion. I feel that the court is very corrupt since it is following the rules of the Bible. This can easily go against anyone that is on trial.
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Post by matthewko on Oct 6, 2013 22:01:33 GMT -5
Matthew Ko
Mr. Thomas
English 11
6 October 2013
D. I enjoyed when Giles speaks out against Thomas Putnam and his scandal for achieving land. Giles eventually says, “You know well why not! He’ll lay in jail if I give his name!” (Page 1254) basically stating the information he gave to Danforth regarding Putnam’s urge for land and money. Here we also see Giles stating a common flaw with the system. If you state someone’s name that gave information that could be interpreted wrongly, there’s a high chance that person will be hanged or imprisoned because of it. If you start mentioning names, more and more people will be happily accused of being innocent.
E. What was very interesting thing to me was this common pattern that Danforth tries to inflict on the people in court. He constantly tries to somehow accuse someone by things in the past. When he asks Mary Warren, “Has he threatened you?” (Page 1255), he is just trying to get Mr. Proctor to become weak so the court can accuse him. Proctor has basically proven that this is a whole scandal with Abigail and I think he has come to realize this and doing the best he can to push it aside.
F. Parris is a character that’s very suspicious. Parris’s hate for Proctor probably means he’s on the side of Abigail. He’s constantly trying to hit Proctor in the weak spot every chance he can. Not only does he do this, but he also lies himself just as he did not admit to seeing the girls dancing naked in the woods. It’s people like this that keep this witchcraft suspicion running and lead a whole town to be corrupt.
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djmat
New Member
Posts: 39 
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Post by djmat on Oct 6, 2013 22:08:16 GMT -5
Dj Mat
Mr. Thomas
English 11
6 October 2013
I. To answer Danny's question yes the puritans were very religious almost to the point where one might consider them to be extreme but John proctor explained that his wife was sick and he had to take care of her. Also it kinda seems like John Proctor is not very religious. I guess he would be categorized as spiritual because he does believe in God but he does not really follow the rules or the way of God.
E. All the pieces are starting to fall together now and Abigail's plan is going to fall apart right in front of her. Giles and Mary Warren speaking up. Giles has evidence that his wife is not a witch and Mary knows the truth about the witch scandal. I am just waiting for the truth to come out and for Abigail to get caught. You can tell that Abigail is a bit agitated or angry when she is defending herself: "Abigail, with a slight note of indignation: It is a lie, sir." This seems like the climax of the play because secrets a being let out.
G. If i were any of the girls following Abigail's lead i would definitely be scared because if she goes down the i would definitely be going down with her. If anything i would probably give her up just so I would be safe because this society seems very hostile and people are being put in jail or being put to death for false accusations. Also it is a lot safer to give Abigail up and say you had nothing to do with the witch scandal then to keep the secret going until you get caught.
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