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Post by Mr. Thomas on Feb 14, 2014 12:44:23 GMT -5
"This is the way the world ends..."
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Post by johnrice on Feb 19, 2014 19:46:49 GMT -5
John Rice
Mr. Thomas
English 11
Feb. 19 2014
E. When reading the first part of this poem, primarily about the hollow men (whom I think are scarecrows) I had a pretty weird reaction. The poem opens with the lines, "We are the hollow men/ We are the stuffed men/ Leaning together/ Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!" THis was and interesting way to start the poem because it is referring to a character we obviously have no idea about. This forced me to automatically stop reading and try to bring myself to a clear depiction of who or what was being talked about.
A. Staying on the topic of the first portion of the poem, I believe that in our world today we experience people who are like the hollow men. THey are "share without form, shade without color, and gestur without motion." There are people in the world who seem like they are meaningful when in actuality their heads are filled with straw. If I am right with my scarecrow prediction, these people scare off other things when they can do no real harm.
C. I really dont understand most of this poem. After the first clear stanza or portion the poem delves into talk of kingdoms and shadows and eyes. I am completely lost, and beginning to think that my depiction of the hollow mean as scarecrows is wrong on so many levels. It doesn't give clear insight on what the eyes are. My understanding of this was that the eyes represented people in moments of death. It states "there were no eyes here" which makes me think at the time of death we have no body except ourselves. But i was doubting all of my instincts because of how confused i was.
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Post by matthewko on Feb 20, 2014 14:07:50 GMT -5
Matthew Ko
Mr. Thomas
English 11
20 February 2014
A. This story came across as very interesting due to the fact of the unknown hollow men. In my opinion, these were the people who were helpless after World War I and had no sense of contribution. Eliot states, "We whisper together / Are quiet and meaningless," summing up how the characters are stuck between life and death and therefore struggling to survive. Relating to many homeless men on the streets, everyday they were struggling to survive struck between the thought of life and death...
B. A very significant quote from Eliot implies, "Eyes I dare not meet in dreams / In death's dream kingdom" saying how these characters are shameful to look into someones eyes. This goes back to the fact that these people are shameful and have a very low self-esteem. Embarrassed by the fact of where they stand, they just don't want to look into anyones eyes due to the fear of being judged.
C. Throughout the story I was trying to figure out how this relates to the modern world at the time… Did Eliot have a personal tragedy that made him somewhat vulnerable and therefore depressed? Was he apart of World War I in which he suffered the acts of warfare? All of this could lead to a conclusion of why Eliot puts his characters on the verge of life or death.
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Post by 1adams12 on Feb 22, 2014 20:38:43 GMT -5
Michael Adams
Mr. Thomas
The Hallow Men
2/22/14
D. What I really liked about the poem was that it was very descriptive and somewhat like a puzzle. I had to put all the pieces of the puzzle together in order to understand what the poem was about. I also liked the fact that it was about a scarecrow (or at least I thought it was) and it described all the things of a scarecrow like its eyes, and like its characteristics. That is what I believed was the spirit, and the eyes because of the lines "“The eyes are not here / There are no eyes here / In this valley of dying stars / In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms.”
A. This sort of reminds me how Mr. Thomas gave us the assignment for the very first essay about your dead loved one. The assignment was related to the article Loss. The reason why this reminds me of this is because of the fact that the author of "The Hallow Men" mention towards the thing that he wrote the poem about, but he never told us outright, just like what we did in the assignment about losing a loved one.
I. I agree with Ko. The story seemed to have a sad tone to it. What made the author, Eliot, write in such a sad tone? Did something happen to him in his life that he is referring to? Did he know someone that had something bad happen to him or her?
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Post by seandelossantos on Feb 23, 2014 14:52:15 GMT -5
Sean de los Santos
Mr. Thomas
English 11 American Lit
23 February 2014
The Hollow men Discussion
C. One question I have about the story is where are they? These men are stuck in this trance, hell like state and it really makes me wonder who they are, and what location are they in. Are they dead, alive, are they ghosts who haven’t made it to the other side? It seems to me like they are in a limbo type place, almost like purgatory. It really make me question who they really are, and what their purpose is in the place like that.
D. One part I really liked in this poem was, “Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear here we go round the prickly pear at five o'clock in the morning.” I enjoyed this part of the prickly pear because it kind of sounds like pop goes the weasel. Instead of mulberry bush it’s the prickly pear aka a cactus. I thought it was good because it was in my opinion a really funny way to reference a song. It was also funny because he changed up the words so it made it seem like an original song.
E. One thing I have come across while reading this poem is the state in which these men are in. It seems these men are in purgatory because of the way the talk and the way they describe things. When the men say that, “This is the dead land This is cactus land Here the stone images,” it seems like they are dead, but they aren’t really in hell or heaven because cactus land has to do with something like limbo or purgatory.
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Post by Sgarlato on Feb 23, 2014 18:06:17 GMT -5
Stephen Sgarlato
Mr. Thomas
English 11
2/23/14
A. The hallow men can be anyone basically. It is unclear who they are but they are people who have been hurt in a way. There is no hint to who they are. “This is the dead land, this is the cactus land”. This implies that whoever they are, they are from a place that is baron or dead. This could also be a metaphor for people with empty lives or lives that have no meaning.
D. Matthew Ko says what he really liked about the poem was the fact that you didn’t know who the men where. This does add a certain factor to it that keeps the reader engaged. It makes the reader want to keep reading because there is hope that the hallow men might actually be revealed, which they really are not in the end.
C. This story is extremely strange because not only does T.S. Eliot not reveal who the men are he doesn’t reveal where they are which is just as big a part of the story. He mentions that they are in a desert place but that could mean anything whether it’s an actual place or a metaphor.
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Post by eointunney on Feb 23, 2014 19:16:02 GMT -5
Eoin Tunney
Mr. Thomas
English 11
23 February 2014
E. This poem is one of those readings that even if you read a few times you would still have difficulty understanding it. The first time I read the poem I automatically thought the Hollow men were Jewish Victims of Nazi concentration camps. The reason I thought this was because in stanza 1 the 2nd line says, “We are the stuffed men”, as well as also mentioning a dry cellar and how they whisper together. But I quickly came to realize I was wrong because on the top the poem is dated 1925.
C. This poem was extremely confusing especially since it didn’t directly say who the Hollow men are. This makes the questions on the very last page fairly difficult to answer. I never really understood what the Hollow Men meant about the Shadow and the Kingdoms. The only part of this poem that I did understand was that these “Hollow Men” are in a run down city or town where there are no people, which I think is meant when he says “There are no eyes here.”
I. After reading through some of the posts I kind of understood this poem a little better. Matthew Ko did a great job breaking down this poem. After reading his comments I could really see how these Hollow Men are people after World War I. I think they also may be men who fought in WW1, but were survives. The 1st stanza says, “We whisper together/ Are quiet and meaningless”, I feel like this is saying that these men are distraught after going through such an intense war. They are lost because many of their friends died and now they don’t feel worthy of being alive.
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Post by johnmarano on Feb 23, 2014 19:58:45 GMT -5
John Marano
Mr. Thomas
English 11
23 February 2014
D. I really enjoyed this poem and learning of these hollow men. I found it so intriguing and fascinating. One quote I want to point out that really grabbed my attention was “Those who have crossed with direct eyes, to death’s other kingdom Remember us –if at all- not as lost violent souls, but only as the hollow men, the stuffed men.” From my understanding and interpretation of the poem, Elliot is saying that the hollow men want the people that have died and crossed over to “death’s other kingdom” also known as heaven, to remember them. These men want these people in heaven to remember them but not for being violent. They want to be remembered on earth and heaven as men that didn’t help others and were of no value. They want to be remembered for being empty and “hollow.”
C. Although I completely enjoyed the story, I did question some things. I was confused on why these men want to be remembered only as hollow? Also, why does Elliot make contradictions by saying “shape without form, shade without colour, Paralsyed force, gesture without motion? What is the final meeting that the hollow men must face? What are the “eyes” that the hollow men can’t face?
E. I had such a strange reactions towards the hollow men in general. Although they are completely insane, they are so interesting. These men are so different and are far form the norm. This really had me thinking of how I would want to be remembered. I was so amused by these men who did not have any desire to be remembered as important especially after the war.
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Post by danokeefe15 on Feb 23, 2014 21:11:43 GMT -5
Danny O'Keefe
Mr. Thomas
English 11
23 February 2014
D. "Those who have crossed With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom Remember us-if at all-not as lost Violent souls, but only As the hollow men The stuffed men". I liked this quote allot because it cleared a lot of things up and showed what these hollow men where and what they were doing. I think the Hollow men are suppose to be scarecrows and they are the things in between the two kingdoms which are heaven and hell.
E. At first I didn' t like the poem because it was a little confusing because I didn't get what the hollow men/scarecrows were and what they were there for, but after reading it a couple times and reading the other discussion board posts it bagan to make sense and I actually began to like it. I liked the darkness of it and how the end of the world is so different from their point of view.
B. I thought the first section of the poem was very helpful because it laid out who the hollow men were some of the feeling and emotions and why they are are where they. I also liked how they watched people cross by them into the kingdom and how they wouldn't care where they went as long as they got away from where they were I felt like that was very important part of the poem and helped me to understand the poem a lot more
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Post by georgebaroudos on Feb 23, 2014 21:16:59 GMT -5
George Baroudos
Mr. Thomas
English 11
21 February 2014
A – When T.S. Eliot talks about rats feet over broken glass it reminded me of rats in the subway. Don’t all rats walk over glass? This made me think of how society hasn’t changed all that much. Our animals are subject to the same consequences. Even though I hate rodents, rats, mice etc., I still feel bad for a harmed animal. It isn’t right for an animal to be subject to pain and hurt.
D – “This is the way the world ends Not with a bang but a whimper.” (V). This quote reminds me of 2012. In 2012 in December we all feared the end of the world. In actuality we are still here so the world did not end. But this made me think if we go out how would it happen? Would it be a silent departure or would we leave with a bang. Personally, I would like to go out with a bang. I would like God to give me a challenge before the world ends. No one knows for sure when the world will end besides God. That’s why I live for the moment. In my opinion there is no other way to live. I live for the now, don’t dwell on the past and look to the future.
I – I feel like the writers of this period live in a broken world where the answers are hidden. The kingdoms the Hollow Men live in reflect the brokenness of the period it is written in. The author’s are possibly venting their hardship through the Hollow Men. The corruption and dismay of the World takes on different stages. This is similar to the kingdoms of the Hollow Men. They have lost hope and love and are unable to see a future at all. The Hollow Men have no meaning and are lost within their own kingdom that is similar to the authors. They are lost in their own kingdom.
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Post by bourdonm15 on Feb 23, 2014 21:17:24 GMT -5
Matthew Bourdon
Mr. Thomas
English 11
2/23/14
C. I found the story to be somewhat confusing throughout. I was mostly confused on what was meant by “death’s dream kingdom”. “Eyes I dare not meet in dreams in death’s dream kingdom these do not appear” (Page 1). What is meant by the constant use of the phrase “death’s dream kingdom”? Due to the confusion on this phrase, it made most of the poem somewhat harder for me to get a clear grip on what was the basis for the story. This was mostly a part of the story and this phrase appeared several times throughout different parts of the poem.
F. I found the description of the Hollow Men very interesting. “We are the hollow men we are the stuffed men leaning together headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried voices, when we whisper together are quiet and meaningless as wind in dry grass” (Page 1). This was pretty weird how it was said that their voices were meaningless and dried. The comparisons that they compared their voices to were interesting as well. They basically are saying that they have no meaning and have no help or say at all in society. It is pretty rare that we see the character telling the reader through description that the character is meaningless and whatever they say has no meaning.
I. I agree with John’s point on how the hollow men are different from everyone else. This is honestly the first time that I’ve read a story in which the character tells the reader that his voice or say is meaningless. This is a very rare moment.
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Post by fotia15 on Feb 23, 2014 22:15:43 GMT -5
e. Originally I was very confused about the true meaning of the poem, it left me with saying "what the hell did i just read" and "what does that mean". After re reading certain lines and drawing connection trough not only given evidence in the poem, but the clue about when the poem was writen and the style of writing it represents. I felt like a detective trying to discover the true meaning of a murders letters, because of the erie writing.
a. " Let me be no nearer, In death's dream kingdom, let me also wear, such deliberate disguises, rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves, in a field behaving as the wind behaves , no nearer." This quote is filled with a lot of different things that you need to connect. The thought of death's dream gives off a hellish vibe, but what i needed to focus on is the fact that in the story the kingdoms are real. In this hellish kingdom there are living things to, those who are blind by the terrors in life. to see this world u need to pretend like your one of them by getting in such nasty / weird / hellish outfits, this will help you become common like a the wind in an open field.
i. Mathew Ko- Elliot seems like a watcher.. what i mean by that is he seems like hes viewing the world around him in a sad way but recognizes the good in life, and the fact that people are living a good life described in the 3rd to last stanza. The world he describes is not far from our, even though it is literally it seems weird, but if thought about in a way were these kingdoms are heaven and hell, and that can ver towards a life of sadness and sorrow (Hell), some can ver towards a life were they are happy (heaven). hope that helps.
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Post by epoccia on Feb 23, 2014 22:45:11 GMT -5
Eddie Poccia
English 11
Mr. Thomas
2/23/14
The Hollow Men
One of the first things that I noticed was that the fifth part of the poem begins with a nursery rhyme called "All Around the Mulberry Bush" but it used different words. I don't know if this is important or not to the overall meaning of the poem but it was just the first thing I noticed.
In the beginning the hollow men are described as leaning together and having headpieces filled with straw so the first thing I thought was that they were scarecrows. But when I read ahead I got to the line, "Those who have crossed, with direct eyes, to death's other kingdom, Remember us- if at all- not as lost violent souls, but only as the hollow men, the stuffed men." I thought this could mean that the hollow men are people who have not yet reached heaven or something like that.
In section 2 the narrator says that the hollow men are afraid to look at others. This could mean that they are guilty of what they have done in or that they are jealous of those that have made it into " death's other kingdom."
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djmat
New Member
Posts: 39 
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Post by djmat on Feb 23, 2014 23:05:13 GMT -5
Osman Mat
Mr. Thomas
English 11
2/23/14
E. I did not mind the poem that much but it was kind of sad or dreary. Throughout the poem the writer makes it so that the Hollow men are all alone. He does not give them any purpose or meaning. At one point he says "Our dried voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and meaningless." It is sad to think that words that words we say have no meaning, that they are hollow and have no purpose. I was not expecting this poem to be as depressing as it was but that is what made it interesting.
C. I am a bit confused as to why the poet made a lot of the lines contradictory. The first two lines for example "We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men" it was a bit confusing because if something is hollow it can not be stuffed. It is a paradox but if u think about it since they are hollow they are missing something but they do have a physical form because they are stuffed. He also compared them to scarecrows so they are like the scarecrow from the wizard of oz. Is there a possibility that the two a related? Did T.S. Eliot have any inspiration from that?
I. I would have to agree with Danny it was a bit rough to read at first but after a bit of re-reading I started to like it more. The stories darkness it what makes it a good poem. T.S. Eliot makes a lot of contradictions or paradox's which is also appealing because it makes you think a bit more.
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Post by rodriguezj15 on Feb 24, 2014 1:29:30 GMT -5
Joel Rodriguez
Mr. Thomas
English 11
February 23,2014
“Hollow Men”
A. To me the narrators are scarecrows. You can sort of tell from lines like, “We are the hollow men, we are the stuffed men, leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. Alas!” But this can also be taken as a metaphor. The narrator can be an actual person but feels like a scarecrow or as useless as one because of his lack of action. For example, “At the hour when we are/Trembling with tenderness/Lips that would kiss/Form prayers to broken stone.” When he was about to go into a kiss he doesn’t and because of this lack of doing anything he feels hollow. And most people do too. We all want to do something big so we can be remembered, but when we don’t you feel incomplete.
D. My favorite line from the poem is, “This is the way the world ends/Not with a bang but a whimper.” I like this line because it’s saying the end of the world will come from our inaction instead of our mistakes. I agree. I believe inaction is worse than a mistake. From a mistake you can learn but from inaction you will never know what will happen.
H. When reading this poem I imagined a whole bunch of people just in a desert or dried field just sitting on rock all quiet not even making eye contact with each other. These are the hollow men. Then there are people in heaven or hell who are actually there cause they actually did something in their life whether good or bad.
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