|
|
Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 11, 2013 9:27:34 GMT -5
Post responses to the depressing ending here.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnmarano on Oct 14, 2013 10:30:19 GMT -5
John Marano
Mr. Thomas
English 11
14 October 2013
C. The ending did kind of confuse me a bit. I didn’t understand if Elizabeth also died with her husband. I do not understand why Danforth gave John such a problem also. John confessed yet he still had to do more, which ultimately led to his death. Why would John just not sign it and move on with his family?
D. The last few pages of the Crucible were really enjoyable. I liked learning about the recent deaths of characters and the pride within characters. The whole story really does a good job leading up to this scene where John Proctor grabs the document from Danforth and rips it up. “… I do think I see some shred of goodness in John Proctor” (1272). As we know, John has really been trying to fix his mistakes. As he approaches the court officials he realizes the only way he can be a true man is if he sticks to his pride. He could have easily been set free but he decided he should do what the honorable, real John Proctor would do. I like how although Hale is yelling and screaming at him that he will be hung; he knows he will be killed with pride and integrity.
E. I can honestly say I love John Proctor. He is such an inspiration to people. Just like all human beings, mistakes are bound to happen, but what shapes a person is how someone reacts to the mistakes. He took on a mission, him against the court. He fought everyday for three months. When the time came and he was about to be released, he came in contact with Elizabeth. His confession does not make it public. His death reveals the goodness of Mr. John Proctor.
|
|
|
|
Post by bourdonm15 on Oct 14, 2013 11:01:23 GMT -5
Matthew Bourdon
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/14/13
A. The text that struck me the most was when Elizabeth tells John that Giles Corey has died. I found Giles to relate to a martyr because Elizabeth explains to John that he died because he refused to communicate with the court. “So he died mute, and died Christian under the law.” (Page 1269) This shows that Giles died for what he believed in. If he had told the court nay, he most likely would’ve been punished or killed in some other way. But if he told the court aye, he would be lying to them and himself. So he stood up for what he believed in and said nothing to the court. This shows a lot about Giles and it is sad that some that was innocent like he was had to die.
B. I found it significant how Proctor admits to seeing the Devil and to being possessed. “Danforth – Did you see the Devil? Proctor – I did.” (Page 1270) I honestly think the only reason that Proctor confessed and lied to the court is because he wanted to stay alive like Elizabeth asked him to. He became sort of crazy calling out who was to judge him, if God is the one to judge him. It also explained in the book how he became infuriated and violent. Everyone is turning crazy and or dying.
E. I can say that I ended up actually respecting John Proctor by the end of the story. I felt like he was one of the select few that stood up to the court without a care in the world. “Danforth – Mr. Proctor, a score of people have already testified they saw this woman with the Devil. Proctor – Then it is proved. Why must I say it?” (Page 1271) This shows how brave, courageous, and truthful Proctor is. He is a character that really does speak his mind.
|
|
|
|
Post by eointunney on Oct 14, 2013 13:08:48 GMT -5
Eoin Tunney
Mr. Thomas
English 11
14 October 2013
E. One character who really amazed me in these last few pages was Giles. When Proctor asked how Giles was, Elisabeth responded by saying he is dead. She tells Proctor that he died by being pressed. The reason why I was amazed with Giles is because died for his beliefs. If the court hanged him his land would have been taken away but instead he died by being pressed so his sons could inherit that land. What amazed me the most was when Elizabeth said the Giles asked for the people pressing him to put more weight on him. This shows he wasn’t going to make a confession.
I. There were a few things that John Marano said that I agreed with. The scene on the last page I felt was cut short. It doesn’t describe the ending very well. I was a bit confused about the last page because I wasn’t sure if Elizabeth died or not. Also it doesn’t say how Proctor dies, which also confused me. And lastly to respond to John’s question about Proctor hand the paper over; If Proctor were to hand the paper over his life would be ruined and so would his family’s life. Also by him doing this I think it makes the people of the town realize that the children were actually lying the whole time.
D. There was one quote from these pages that got me thinking of why the court, especially Danforth, are a bunch of idiots. On page 1272, Danforth says, “Hang them high over the town! Who weeps for these, weeps for corruption!” This quote is when Danforth was saying to hang everyone who weeps for Proctor. I found this absolutely ridiculous because dealing with a situation like this in the manner Danforth wants to will only make the situation worse. The reason why I called the court a bunch of idiots was because all of them handle situations by using torture or death.
|
|
|
|
Post by matthewsegarra on Oct 14, 2013 16:26:53 GMT -5
Matthew Segarra
Mr. Thomas
English 11
15 October 2013
C. The ending left me in a state of confusion. I was not sure if Elizabeth died with John or not. Nor did I understand what Danforth’s problem with John was. Even though John confessed, he was not fully absolved and would not do the extra things he had to do. This led to his death. After he has progressed so far, why did he not just sign the paper?
D. I enjoyed the last few pages of the play. I liked seeing the characters progress and become more dynamic. I also like the scene where Proctor rips up the paper given to him by Danforth. “… I do think I see some shred of goodness in John Proctor” (1272). We all know John is a good person, we have seen him trying to right his wrongs. I like how he took the honorable way out of the situation he was in. He did not betray his own beliefs and in the end, you could say that he was a martyr.
I. I agree with John Marano for response C. I think the ending did not really end the play. It does not give a good description of what actually happened in the end. I did not know if Elizabeth died. I did not even know how Proctor died.
|
|
|
|
Post by 1adams12 on Oct 14, 2013 17:40:35 GMT -5
Michael Adams
Mr. Thomas
A. Like John Proctor, I feel that sometimes I need to admit to something that I did not do just so I can get out of trouble for not telling people that I did it. I also feel that the need to let people know what has happened, and who did can be especially hard for me, if I did not do it, or if I am trying to cover up for someone. I also feel that it could be hard covering up for someone because not only did you not do anything, but you have to lie, which I do not like doing.
C. Personally I did not understand one thing, which was the fact that John was going to admit to being a wizard, but then he gets hanged because he will not publicize his name. The couple things that I do not understand are why did people need to see John Proctor's name on the door of the Church, why did they not accept the fact that Proctor confessed? Why did they not want to tell Proctor when he did not want to tell anyone who he saw with the Devil? And why did Proctor, tear the piece of paper up when that was the only chance of survival for him?
E. The character that I had the most feeling for would be for John Proctor. I was happy that John was giving the confession, even though he was lying to save his life, but I was disappointed that he did not answer the questions and Proctor gave the people that were questioning him a hard time. I also was upset when Proctor tore the confession up because I thought that he almost escaped from being killed. At the end, I was disappointed in Proctor because it seemed like he just gave up and that he did not care about what would happen to his wife, Elizabeth.
|
|
|
|
Post by emmanuelluna on Oct 14, 2013 18:15:24 GMT -5
Emmanuel Luna
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/11/13
D. A quote that I liked in this scene was when John was talking to Elizabeth about whether or not he should confess to the judges and she says, “John, it come to naught that I should forgive you, if you’ll not forgive yourself. It is not my soul, John, it is yours. Only be sure of this, for I know it now: Whatever you will do, it is a good man does it” (1269). I enjoyed this quote because it shows amongst all the madness and despair there are still those who love and trust each other and that’s why I really liked this scene.
E. I really liked when John Proctor signed the paper that Danforth gave him and then didn’t return it. I really enjoyed this scene because he is playing with the judges because he knows that he’ll be killed anyway so by not giving them the paper, the villagers will have no proof and this will make them turn on the judges for killing good, innocent people. I also liked when John stood up for himself and said, “You will not use me! I am no Sarah Good or Tituba, I am John Proctor! You will not use me! It is no part of salvation that you should use me!” (1272) I enjoyed this part because he is firmly taking a stand saying that if he’s going down, he will not be used, but instead will take the judges down with him.
C. I was confused by the ending when Parris and Hale tell Elizabeth to run to Proctor. I don’t understand Parris would tell her to run to Proctor but I was also confused by what she actually told him. What did she mean by he have his goodness now?
|
|
|
|
Post by seandelossantos on Oct 14, 2013 18:32:20 GMT -5
Sean de los Santos
Mr. Thomas
English 11
11 October 2013
Crucible Act 4 Final discussion
A. The end of the crucible relates to the present in many significant ways. One distinct way is how the court in the present can force people to give the information they want in which non of the many things the people sat are actually true.. In the final act, John Proctor had to practically lie to Danforth and Parris about meeting with the devil. Both Danforth and Parris wanted to get the information they wanted, but in all of reality none of it was true. This is also present today, in which interrogators will do anything to the person of interest to get what they truly want. It is extremely unfair to the person being interrogated in which he has no say in what he believes in.
C. What really caused me confusion is the part where Proctor rips up the document he signed. It was really confusing to why he wanted to do that. I wasn’t sure if it was anger or out of insanity but he did it. Another thing that confused me was why Parris didn’t want him to rip it up. In the book, it says that Parris was, “ hysterically, as though the tearing of the paper was his life. (1272)” I t was really weird how he was mad that he ripped the document up.
D. One of the Ideas I found in the text was the idea of revealing one’s true self. In the text, we see many people confess themselves in which they have done something wrong. John Proctor reveals that he was a bad husband, and Elizabeth tells him she also was a doubtful partner. This idea is present throughout the whole text. It’s something that is truly present when the person can’t take any more.
|
|
|
|
Post by odonnelle on Oct 14, 2013 19:58:44 GMT -5
E. It must not go without note that, were he not the Only Sane Man, John Proctor would simply be a Puritan with a pointy hat like everyone else in the community. His adultery would stand to make him lesser than anyone else, even. Yet, because he managed to stand out and be noble in this far-fetched scenario where neighbors turn against neighbors and the virtue of honor was lost to all but a few, Proctor gained back what he had undoubtedly lost prior to this apocalyptic event: honor. Respect in the eyes of his neighbors, his family, and, most importantly, respect for himself which he had lost long ago. “For now I do think I see some shred of goodness in John Proctor.” John Proctor ultimately finds his redemption in death itself.
F. John and Elizabeth’s relationship has come a great distance from the beginning of the play (of course, it helps that their fate is up in the air by this point). When we first see them together and alone, both are plagued by doubt of the other to some extent. What’s worse is the doubt is well-placed. John Proctor is proven to not be below lying to his wife. Elizabeth openly expresses her doubts of John’s goodness in Act II, and we can only tell that John cares about her based on his distraught reaction to her arrest. Now, here we are in Act IV. Both John and Elizabeth are tearfully saying their goodbyes, not knowing what will come next or knowing what to do. Elizabeth, who is now overcome with immense guilt for trying to save John’s hide, is openly expressing her support of John. “Only be sure of this: whatever you do, it is a good man does it.” John reciprocates and tries to comfort Elizabeth, trying to dissociate her from his fate as much as possible. In the end, John asks himself, “What Would Ned Do?,” and follows the honorable path with his wife by his side.
C. So, Elizabeth is still off the hook, right…? For that matter, what becomes of John’s property? Is this counted as him confessing or is this counted as him abstaining like Giles did?
|
|
|
|
Post by Sgarlato on Oct 14, 2013 20:39:45 GMT -5
Stephen Sgarlato
Mr. Thomas
English 11
10/14/13
C. I understand that John Proctor was going to confess to being a wizard but what was the deal with signing the paper. I am not questioning why he didn’t sing the paper, I am concerned with why he had got in trouble before he confessed and didn’t sing the paper.
I. Sean de los Santos makes a point why Parris doesn’t want John to rip up the document and why John rips up the document itself. I think that he ripped it up because of all the insanity that
has been going on and it just pushed him over the edge. The craziness forced him to just tear it up.
B. A significant part of the text was when John Proctor ripped up the paper and admitted to being a witch. This was significant because the town of Salem finally figure out who is a witch or
wizard even though it may or may not be true. It is also significant because it shows how the insanity of the town just got to Proctors head and forced him to break down.
|
|
|
|
Post by scanley73 on Oct 14, 2013 20:40:22 GMT -5
D. I really enjoyed the line where Elizabeth tells Proctor that Giles died. I didn’t like it because he died. Rather, I liked it because it showed the fortitude that Giles possessed. The court put weights on him and he refused to tell them a word. He didn’t want to give in to the hysteria that the rest of the town had fallen into. His final words where “more weight.” He preferred to die than to condemn innocent people. At first in the story I wasn’t sure how I felt about Giles but after that I knew that he was a good character who I wound up really liking in the end.
I. In response to Sean’s question about why Parris became hysterical about Proctor ripping up the paper was because now what he feared would happen is happening. Proctor is being executed along with Rebecca Nurse and Giles’ wife. Parris felt that if they were executed then the people of Salem would try to kill Parris for beginning these events resulting in the deaths of upstanding citizens of Salem. He now is certain that the town will rebel and thinks that he is going to be killed now. The paper “being like his life” was basically his life because now they all will die.
C. One question that I have is what happens to Elizabeth? The story never gives like an aftermath sort of thing. So I just want to know what happens to Elizabeth and if she and her child end up being okay.
|
|
|
|
Post by matthewko on Oct 14, 2013 21:15:24 GMT -5
Matthew Ko
Mr. Thomas
English 11
October 15, 2013
D. I really enjoyed when John Proctor quotes, “God does not need my name nailed upon the church! God sees my name; God knows how black my sins are! It is enough!” because it basically states another flaw of this system. It has come to a point where the judges of the court only want to make the people think this is real so they don’t look bad themselves. Proctor comes in and says that this kind of accusation should be directed to God and not to the people because there is no point in doing that. The only point would be to corrupt the society all for mainly two people that are evil.
E. Towards the end of the story, everything was pretty much summed up by Proctor. When he says, “Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet of them that hang!”, we see how Proctor is the first person to stand up to the reality of this whole situation. People only lie to stay alive which is sad because the society puts the authority into the hands of the few people that they hope to trust.
C. I was confused on what would happen with Elizabeth. I never remember reading anything on how she confessed and this whole Proctor business was trying to get her out of the state she was in. When she runs down to the cell and tells Proctor to live, did that imply that she confessed herself as well?
|
|
|
|
Post by georgebaroudos on Oct 14, 2013 21:16:56 GMT -5
George Baroudos
Mr. Thomas
English 11
13 October 2013
I – The whole class has had varying opinions of John Proctor, some have liked him some have not. After we have finished reading we know must have a respect for John Proctor. John Proctor dies with dignity; John Proctor essentially dies a respectable death. In many aspects we were on the fence about him because he did cheat on his wife. But we clearly see how sorry he was for his actions. Only a true man will admit when he is wrong and there is nothing not to like in that.
A – Elizabeth stays neutral in Proctor’s decision making. That is a tough position to be in, Elizabeth repeatedly says, “I am not your judge, I cannot be.” This helps you and doesn’t, personally I feel as if a relationship is built off the fact that support is mutual. Not voicing your opinion is ultimately negatively affecting your friend. It is not fair to John Proctor, but he deals with it and makes the right decision. John Proctor lucked out in a sense because he is dying a man with plenty of respect. Someone like John Proctor is worth looking up too. Elizabeth on the other hand is not a good friend; if she cannot tell you her opinion then she is not true.
D – Hale honestly emerged into someone I genuinely liked. His first impression initially turned me off. But he has built up his rep and found his place. When Proctor tells him that he is going to save himself Hale becomes ecstatic. That’s what a true friend does; a true friend sticks with them through the rough and the glory. Hale does everything he can to save the people and I will stand by my statement because I believe in that. Hale clearly changes and it’s for the better. I respect that and Proctor was lucky to have a friend like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by rodriguezj15 on Oct 14, 2013 21:57:34 GMT -5
Joel Rodriguez Mr. Thomas English 11 October 14, 2013 The Crucibles Finale I. To respond to Sean, the reason for John for ripping up the paper was so he doesn't lose the name of him and his family. His and the name of the family was all he had left. The court stripped all his innocence, rights, dignity, and integrity during the trials but he kept to the only thing he could, his name. And to answer Collin, Evan, Matt Segarra, and John’s question whether Elizabeth dies or not, she does. The court never promised to save Elizabeth and John if he signed the paper. All they wanted was his signature so the village won’t think the court is executing innocent people. So Elizabeth still dies when she delivers her baby. D. I think this would be my favorite line from the entire play, “How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; leave my name (Miller 1272)!” This is something a man at the end of his road would say. Something a man, whose been pushed over the top, would say. This shows that even after everything the court has put Proctor through he still has his pride and would let his name be violated. F. I think the relationship between John and Elizabeth is at its strongest instead of its weakest. People may argue saying that she doesn't cry and fall to her knees when she sees him but she just wants to be strong. People may also say that she doesn't stop him from basically killing himself. But the last lines of the play are her reasoning, “He have his goodness now. God forbid I take it from him (Miller 1273)!” If truly loved him she would let him be happy even if it meant death. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 15, 2013 9:10:54 GMT -5
Peter Stolarski
Mr. Thomas
English 11
October 10th, 2013
The Crucible Finale
D) "Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet of them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; leave me my name!" I enjoyed this quote because Proctor here is stating how he will not sign because he will lose his reputation forever. Without his reputation Proctor is nothing and he would rather die with his reputation then live without one, hated and mistrusted by all.
E) I hate Danforth. He is being completely unreasonable and no longer cares about the lives of others. All Danforth cares about now is his own reputation and the reputation of the court in town. He would rather someone die than his reputation be lost. Danforth is an unreasonable selfish person. "Mr. Proctor, I must have good and legal proof that you-" He doesn't need legal "proof" he only needs something the hang up in front of the church for all to see and for him not to lose his reputation.
F) The relationship between Elizabeth and Proctor is rather odd. Elizabeth seems to have some influence over Proctor, and Proctor always acknowledges her, he always ends up doing what he wants. This can be seen when Elizabeth wants Proctor to confess and Proctor says he will butt in the end he simply rips up the document that he has signed.
|
|
